Would you sue?
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I just finished reading John Grisham’s most recent book, “The Appeal” which prompted the question: What criteria
is
necessary for
an average person
to initiate
a lawsuit? When is an accident just an accident?
The main story is about a large chemical company dumping toxic waste which poisoned the water supply in that county. Drinking the water caused increased incidents of cancer all over the county — 17 times the national average — and many people died.
So one of the survivors, who lost her husband and young son, sued the chemical company and was awarded $41 million in punitive damages. That’s where the story begins, with the verdict and the subsequent appeal.
Quick side note: On Amazon.com, there are 365 used & new copies of this book available starting at $0.68. Sixty-eight cents?! The list price is actually $27.95 but Amazon has slashed the price down to $18.45. Is this a marketing game? Does anyone buy books at a bookstore anymore? For that matter, does anyone buy books anymore?
I always go to the library because once I’m done with the story, I’m done. I do not re-read books. I don’t understand personal libraries (besides reference books.)
Mr. C, however, is down with the personal library and has a few bookcases filled with such items. Katie has asked me about that and I always come up short. I don’t know why people save books. Mr. C has not provided an explanatory answer beyond, “Because I want to.” So I don’t know what to tell her.
Back to Mr. Grisham. I would imagine he’s not hurting for cash, but I wonder what kind of profit he makes on a book like that. Does the publishing company pay him a lump sum and then the reduced price is the publishing company’s problem?
Lastly, don’t you think it would be annoying, as an author, to see your novel sold on Amazon for $.68? I would be really frustrated and irritated. But maybe an advance of $500,000 would help with the irritation.
Anyway, the question came up near the end of the story. An attorney who became a state Supreme Court Justice was the coach of his kid’s baseball team. At one of the games a freak accident occurred. After another kid used an old, outlawed aluminum bat the ball hit the judge’s son in the head. The kid had a concussion and was taken to the ER. The doctor ordered a CT scan and said the kid was okay, just watch him overnight.
Overnight the kid went from bad to worse and it turns out the ER doctor read the wrong CT scan. The kid’s scan was bad, he had cranial bleeding which caused pressure to build up, which in turn caused surgery and brain damage. So his father, the judge, was trying to decide if he should sue. Should he sue the company that produced the bat? Should he sue the doctor who read the wrong scan?
Or should he accept that it was a freak accident and live with the consequences?
It’s really difficult to even imagine that scenario with one of my children, but I don’t think I would have the wherewithal to deal with a trial. I would be really angry at the doctor who read the wrong chart, but I imagine mistakes like that happen more than we want to believe. That’s why I do not work in the medical field. While I find it fascinating, I cannot deal with the fact that my mistake might kill someone.
I think the emotional pressure of dealing with the accident, coupled with the lack of finances necessary for a trial like that, would influence my decision not to sue.
And is that truly malpractice? Is a mistake like that enough to win a lawsuit?
I don’t know. What do you think?
Is a mistake like that enough to win a lawsuit? Yes it is, based on negligence. I think we are always looking for someone to blame when bad things happen and feel that had someone done the job they were properly trained to do, the other thing would not have happened.
In some lines of work, you can’t afford mistakes, literally and figuratively.
Oh and I wish I kept every book I ever read too. If I had a room of just books, I would love it. I love going to the book store and I do buy books, but I use the library more. I also use PaperBackSwap dot com, check it out.
I guess I assumed it has to be “gross negligence” like the doctor couldn’t be bothered to really look at the scan, rather than looking at it and missing something.
Really, you like to keep books? I have heard of that website and for someone who is into it, it sounds like a great idea.
Hola CG!
Hope all is well.
While I still have many of the books I have read over the years, I believe my packrat days are over. My husband on the other hand, is a confirmed packrat and thus we still have every book AND magazine he has ever perused! He doesn’t realize, but I have been slowly whittling down his Stereo and Vette magazine collections (circa @1972) to make room for the rest of his junk!
The lawsuit thing is a very personal one. We went through this when my Mom died. One of my sisters wanted to sue someone, anyone. My other sister and I had to reason with her emotions. It was a very stressful time. In the end, we talked her out of it. But what we went through to get to that point was very stressful on our relationship with each other. Looking back, we know we made the right decision. But you could second guess this kind of thing to death.
Anyway, Clive sends kisses! Come on by and pick ‘em up sometime.
Mucho Smooches!
Val
Hi Val! Wow, that is a massive packrat — stuff going back almost 40 years?! Damn, girl. I thought I had packrat tendencies because I kept some magazines for almost a year.
I agree regarding the lawsuit. It seems so difficult to make decisions like that in the midst of the crisis, even in the aftermath. An event like that would take so long to reconcile and I can’t imagine the stress of a trial on top of that. Also, I hadn’t thought about all of the parties (in the family, for instance) not agreeing. It would be hard in the parent child scenario if one parent wanted to sue and the other didn’t.
Hey girl!
I? Adore books! I will re-read some, but even the ones I will not likely re-read I keep if its a favorite author, or if I like the book’s art work. Some books, even by a author I don’t normally care for, I will keep because the story touched or moved me. I like old books for the care in their crafting, I like the smell of a new book, I like coffee table books just for the incredible photos. I have all kinds of books, text books, reference books, books from when I was kid, books for the girls that I won’t get rid of.
I will get rid of books; that isn’t an issue. I just have a LOT that I like, heh.
Wow. I guess when it really comes down to it, we all have something that we like to collect, books just happen to be more universal than say, Converse low tops. To each his own :)
As for suing…it would depend, for me, on the doctor. The kid’s parents, too, would have an impact on my decision. I would have to assess the whole thing to see if I felt it was merely an accident, or negligence.
Its unlikely that I would sue. But it would be an option.
I hadn’t thought about the other kid’s parents. In fact, in the book they never mentioned that as a possibility. It was either the manufacturer of the bat or the doctor. Although the main story of the book was about the CEO/owner of the company and the actual company. So it was a parallel story.
It comes down to the math. Amazon buys a book at $10 for example – that’ll be a certain percentage off the RRP (so say it’s 50% off the RRP – so the book would sell at $20).
Amazon then have the lee-way off $10 to play with when it comes to discounts etc. So they might buy it at $10 and sell it at $20 which gives them $10 “profit” but then they decide if we drop it to $15 then more people might buy it and they make $5 on each copy.
Does that make sense?
The sixty-eight cents one is probably someone clearing out their personal library and selling the book on in which case they pay their fee to amazon (like you do on ebay) and then they get what’s left.
Not really sure on the whole personal library – I love the idea of having a bookcase full of books (i think it’s my own fault my favourite bit in Beauty and The Beast is when she’s allowed to hang out in the library and read books. I was sooo jealous hehe)
Yes, that does make sense. I did wonder if the original price was inflated, so there was that sense of getting a great deal through Amazon. It looks like you know your way around Amazon. That’s exactly what the deal was with the 68 cents, someone was selling a used copy, but then the shipping cost $3.99, so the overall price of the 68 cent book was actually $4.67.
Oh, right. I remember that part in B&TB, funny I never made note of that.
Oh, I horde books. I have 4 1/2 bookshelves worth of books, and I’m itching to buy more (Barnes & Noble is a personal mecca). I reread books – they are like old friends and the ones I love are falling apart…
As for the lawsuit? Oh, there are grounds for it… I suppose I’d have to know more details. Was the doctor working too long? Was he a resident or a fully qualified doctor? Did they not do a physical examination? Did he check the CT scan more than once?
Good questions, Rebecca. I am a major coattail rider when it comes to bookstores. (cringes) I scan/speed read books at the store and then put them back. Ugh, what a loser. Then, if I like the story, I get the book at the library. I just assumed most people are slackers like me and that’s why I wonder if those bookstores are making a profit.
The personal library? I used to be into that and would save every book I ever read. I have since gotten rid of most of them.
As for the suing– A great big yes. And that is coming from a doctor. Yes, it was a mistake, but a mistake that could have and should have been prevented, and would have saved the child. The question in court would be why did the doctor read the wrong film? Was his desk too messy and it get lost in the shuffle? Or was he given the wrong film by the radiology dept? If he was given the wrong film, it would be a systems error, and the hospital would be most liable, although the doctor should have checked the name on the film and still played a part.
BTW– that scenario is unlikely to happen. Even if the ER doctor read the wrong film, the radiologist reads all films and would have seen the bleed and contacted the ordering physician, ie the ER doc.
Do mistakes happen all the time? You bet. We are human and shit happens. My husband and I talk about it all the time. That is our biggest fear, hurting someone. Did the baby with a fever we sent home with a diagnosis of a virus really have just a virus? Or could it have been early meningitis? Did we miss something? Those are the thoughts that keep me up at night. We talk about patients all the time, to bounce things off each other. Have I ever missed something? Probably. The kid that comes back the next day with full blown pneumonia after I told the mom it was a cold–did the pneumonia flourish overnight, or was it there the day before and I missed it? There is no way to know. Thankfully (**knocking on my wooden desk**) I have not had anything serious happen, but my husband and I are always saying it is a matter of time. It could happen any day.
Damn, I don’t get paid enough.
I did wonder what an actual doctor would think about this. Good catch on the radiology dept. — I hadn’t considered that piece.
Those questions, the ones that keep you up at night, would really do me in. I really could not handle the pressure of making a mistake like that. Is it really just a matter of time before that stuff happens and are people quick to take legal action? I suppose our own experience with Katie is a good example of how I don’t even think about lawsuits.
She has asthma, and we’d told our pediatrician about the constant cough. She said it was allergies or a cold. I now know Katie had at least three or four asthma attacks when we didn’t know what was happening. That went on for about a year. Finally we took her to the ER on a Sunday (of course, it always happens on a weekend, right?) and the doctor basically thought we were nuts for not bringing her in sooner.
“She’s in respiratory distress (she was 3-1/2 at the time) what the hell were you thinking? Her oxygen level is at 92. You have a cat?! Get rid of it!”
We felt terrible and we told him that we’d told the pediatrician about the cough and that she was seen regularly. I suppose she wasn’t in the middle of an attack when we took her to our pediatrician. But it didn’t occur to us to take any action, besides shouldering all of the guilt over it.
Regarding the scenario of the child who got hit in the head with the bat… IF there were a lawsuit, I think there would be sufficient grounds to bring it against the doctor. There was a medical error that occurred which caused harm to the patient.
Wow, I would have chalked it up to human error and my bad luck.
In regards to the lawsuit, grounds exist to bring suit against the doctor and probably against the bat manufacturer too. As Michelle described earlier medical mistakes can definitely be the basis of a lawsuit, that’s why doctors have to carry malpractice insurance. Since the doctor misread the scan and treatment was delayed as a result, there would be a very strong argument that the resultant brain damage was caused by the delay or a at least substantially worsened by the delay. I think the decision to file a suit in these cases come down to the extent of the injury, whether it is temporary or permanent and relationship between the doctor and the patient (how long have you know the doctor, does he/she seem sorry, did they try to correct the problem, etc).
The case against the bat manufacturer would not be as clear cut. I would assume that the argument would be that the bat was defectively designed and as a result presented a danger to children. The fact that the bat was outlawed would support that argument. However, a fact like that may also be used by the manufacturer to say that they took appropriate actions to minimize the hazard by helping notify baseball leagues that that style of bat should be used by kids. Also, the doctor’s mistake may also play into the suit against the bat manufacturer. The bat company would say that the bat didn’t cause the brain damage it was the doctor’s mistake that caused it.
In regards to books, I love them!!! I have way too many books in my apartment. When I eventually get a house I want a room/office filled with bookshelves. :) I still buy books. It’s very dangerous for me to go into a bookstore. I usually come out with $60-$100 worth of books. Star Trek books and New Age are my downfall. As a result, I try to avoid even setting foot in bookstores.
Wow Buf. Are you a lawyer? I thought you were an engineer. Way to support your argument.
It was noted, in the book, that the manufacturer stopped producing those bats at least five years earlier and probably couldn’t be held responsible for an old bat. Since they sent out warnings and changed the way the bats were made.
I’m amazed that you spend up to $100 on books! Mr. C would love a den filled with books as well. I don’t see it in our future, though.
Well, not being the litigious kind, this one’s a difficult questions… and begs more questions before I can decide, really.
I doubt the aluminum bats were outlawed because balls hit with them had a tendency to bonk other players in the head, so suing the kid using the illegal bat is just… stupid.
Whether or not to sue the doc that misread the scan…? Was it just human error, or was the doctor hepped up on prescription drugs, or drunk, or in a hurry, or…? That would make a difference for me.
And truthfully, if I were to sue this doctor, it would only be for expenses, and to get him out of his practice until whatever caused the error was cleaned up. A shitload of money isn’t going to alleviate the sadness of having a brain-damaged kid. It’s always bugged me to no end to read about families that sue for bazillions, with the argument that the money will somehow take all the pain away.
But I’ve always said baseball was a dangerous sport, haven’t I…? I’m the one that hit MYSELF in the head with the bat when I was a kid, after all…
Books… hmmm…. I once had shelves of them. Shelves and shelves and shelves. But now I’ve switched to your way of thinking. I don’t know why…
Hey, nothing wrong with the minimalist approach regarding the books.
You know I sort of glossed over the bat argument in the book. There was some explanation about the weight of the bat and how it made the ball fly harder and further. Or something like that. I don’t remember and I’m not a sports fan. I think in this scenario it was just human error with the doctor.
Also, I would want enough money to cover current and future medical expenses.
I keep books because a house without books looks to me like a very sad place indeed. They’re conversation starters when you have guests and they make a house look like a home while saying a lot about you.
But you’re right, it doesn’t make much sense!
The books you keep certainly tell a story, that’s for sure. When I first met Mr. C I didn’t know if he was a Bible thumper or just interested in religion. He’s just interested.
People sue too much. Take your example of the baseball game.. it’s kind of assumed you are accepting the fact that your kid might get hurt. I know brain damage is an extreme, but it does happen. I more wanted to comment on the book issue.. I save books because I reread them, especially ones in series. I have some books that I found online that are out of print, and difficult to find, so I keep them. I frequently find used books for 75 cents or less on half.com, a used book site. I would guess that’s what the 68 cents one on Amazon is.. I often pay more for shipping (2.35) than for the book (.75)!
Mr. C has a couple of books that he *xeroxed* (!) because they are out of print and the only copies were available at the library. I found that really wild. But again, we all have our interests and books seem to be quite universal.
I had the same thought as I was reading the book — that there’s a certain amount of risk in sports. And don’t get me started on the medical shows I have seen regarding high school football players and life threatening injuries. Ay chihuahua!
Well the mother in me would want to totally kick the ass of the punk who intentionally used the illegal bat. Then, after I kicked his ass I would totally have a breakdown because I would feel so guilty. But then I would go to see my child in the hospital and well…….you get the picture.
At the end of the day, I would probably only sue if I needed money to help care for my brain damaged child. One of my best friends is married to one of our areas best attorneys (yes, that kind of attorney) so I would probably have them take care of everything and not tell me much or I would drop the suit every time I looked at the people I was suing. Something about people’s eyes gets me every time.
It’s definitely a difficult decision. I think, in the book, it was an unfortunate coincidence that the kid used that old bat. It wasn’t portrayed as intentional, if that influences your decision any.
You know, accidents happen regarding children. If the situation had simply been that the one kid conked the other kid over the head with the bat, there would be no cause to sue. But I do think that the doctor/hospital was negligent in not having the correct scan, so there would be a cause to sue. You have an expectation of getting the proper care when you go to the hospital. That said, I wouldn’t be using the lawsuit as a way to become rich, either. It seems to me that these multi-million dollar lawsuits are really getting out of hand, and that’s why doctors can’t afford the malpractice insurance to stay in business.
I keep books. I do have a few collections (books by Robert A. Heinlein in particular), but I also have a ton of random books I picked up at one thrift store or another. I try to go through my books every once in a while and donate them to a thrift store or a used bookstore. I also stay out of bookstores (especially used bookstores) as much as possible because it’s so hard for me to resist buying another book. When I lived in Washington, I’d visit the used bookstore downtown at least once a week, and every time I’d come out with at least two books.
I have to say I’m kind of surprised at the amount of book collectors we have here in the Lounge. I guess I’m the odd man out. Oh well. I have my low tops and that’s all I need :)
I just love books. I like the way they smell and the way they feel. I like to buy them almost as much as I like to read them. I have so many I had to buy a bookshelf, but not enough to fill the shelf so now I want more to fill it with!
And no. I would not sue. I am not sue-happy. Although I think a lot of Americans are these days. There are things I would sue for, but not for reading the wrong CT. I wouldn’t want to be sued for something that I did on accident so I couldn’t justify doing it to others.
Another book lover, eh? I do wonder where to draw the line on human error versus negligence. I suppose some of that falls into a gray area.
Hey CG!
I am an engineer by background and current employment but I go to law school at night. I should graduate around Memorial day (YEAH!!!) and then take the bar in June/July (not so yeah). So that was my unofficial law student opinion. I could go on and on, those are the type of questions we get on law school exams, only with more detail and longer. Then we get to write for pages explaining who’s liable, defenses, etc.
One other point, in regards to participating in sports and spectators at sporting events, there is a concept of “accepting the risk” and that by agreeing to participate in such an activity you have accepted the risks that are inherent to that activity (eg. getting tackled while playing football). As a result, you couldn’t sue under those circumstances unless it was a willful action that injured you. Also, when you go to a pro sporting event there’s usually a waiver on the ticket that disclaims the stadium, team, etc from liability in the event you get injured (eg by a baseball hit into the stands). The only way you could really sue in those situations would be if the normal protective measures the stadium uses (eg the net behind home plate) were defective and that led to the injury.
I’ll stop now. Sorry for the long posts.
You’re certainly an apt student, based on your answers Buf. I’m impressed. What kind of “lawyering” will you be doing once you pass the bar? Do you want to go before a jury or work with a large corporation?
p.s. Thanks for indulging my curiosity :)
I probably wouldn’t sue. Mistakes happen. Even tragic ones, sometimes. Hard as it might be, I don’t see how suing the doctor is going to help. It’s not going to undo anything. I suspect that more times than not, it’s just about getting a large sum of money from someone, rather than ensuring that the mistake doesn’t happen again.
Yes, I would imagine the idea behind suing is largely about that person who was injured and not so much about the doctor (or whoever) not making future mistakes.
Ah, books. I love them. Yes, I have quite an extensive library. My mother-in-law says I have TOO MANY BOOKS. I just have too many books for her taste. My husband actually used to share this weakness (in fact, he had a whole set of Reader’s Digest – no wait, I think he still does – going back to like 1940 – and the amazing thing is that he still pulls out old copies and reads them), however, he has been weaning them. I tried to wean mine a little on his behalf (plus a flood took several precious irreplaceable ones – ones purchased in England, first edition, etc.) but still have to be very careful not to buy too many. I even have multiple copies of some books (usually if I intended to use them for a class).
When I was growing up, my parents had a library room and I loved to sit in the comfy chair in there and read to my heart’s content. For the longest time, we lived in such small quarters that I couldn’t have my books. Now, there are books in almost every room. In the basement, my books cover a whole wall of shelves. When I get around to sending you my pictures of the house, you’ll see what I mean. Of course, don’t you dare tell me that my clutter problem would be solved if I would just get rid of my books – HA!
I don’t think I would sue, but, then again, I’m not in that situation. My dad had option to sue when a doctor accidentally left a metal instrument in his insides. They had to go back in and remove it. When he loses weight, you can see the lump on the side where the instrument had been. He didn’t sue. I suppose, for me, I would have to feel that the action of suing would solve something (compensate for medical bills incurred or prevent a similar thing from happening again).
I can’t get past the fact that your father had a metal instrument left inside of him!! I do recall, after giving birth, my doctor tied a cloth around some kind of instrument as he was putting stitches in and he said that was one of the ways he made sure no instruments were left inside! And I was so surprised that it would be a possibility in my case.
That’s when he said, “You’d be surprised.” Yuck.
1940?!! Wow. I don’t think anything I own in this house is that old. Well, except for the actual house. That was built in 1926.
Hola Cardio….that is a true sue-able situation. This is precisely why doctors have malpractice insurance. In many instances with cases like this the attorney will take the case knowing that most time doctors will settle without a trial and all the attorney fees would be recovered or paid from the settlement with no cost from the family. A trial kills a doctor’s reputation so they settle against their malpractice insurance. Do you remember the doctor that screwed up Kelly Ripa’s sister instead of settling he went to trial and lost, his word isn’t worth a dime these days.
Faith
I didn’t know Kelly Ripa’s sister had any issue with a doctor. I have to Google that for sure. So if a doctor settles out of court is a new patient ever aware of that? And can the doctor just go back to work and start over again? That’s a wild concept.
I would sue the doctor for the misdiagnosis.
I have a personal library. I love books and I re-read books often. Sometimes I get different things out of them the second, third or fifth time around.
That is dedication, Kari — re-reading them so often. I don’t even like watching the same movie twice. Maybe I have storyline ADD.
Hmm. Why DO I keep books? I only have one bookshelf full now, but need to get rid of some to make room for some others I recently bought but haven’t read.
I think people sue because they are in pain and grief and anger and looking for someone to blame. That’s all it is. Blame. But to me it’s no different than exacting non-financial revenge for some way you feel you were wronged. It doesn’t truly make you feel better deep down.
If my loved ones died as a result of a mistake, I would only want to be assisted in paying any kinds of hospital bills and funeral expenses. Otherwise, I don’t feel punishment against others is necessary.
I would agree with that assessment on why people sue. And if my medical bills were truly crazy, catastrophic I would consider suing for medical costs. And as you pointed out revenge, no matter how satisfying in the mind, usually isn’t as fulfilling in reality.
Hey CG-
In regards to you other question, I’m still deciding what type of “lawyering” I’m going to do. I work as an environmental engineer so environmental law is the most logical and the one where I probably have the best chance of getting hired and making decent money. However, I would really like to do civil liberties/civil rights type of work. [ Yes I am a liberal, tree hugger in many ways. :) ]Only problem is that the pay tends to be low. I guess time will tell.
I like the idea of being a trial lawyer, actually arguing cases, etc. I don’t see myself ever working for large corporation. I’ve done that already and have had my fill.
Your ideal job, which pays lower than the other, was sort of the case with the lawyers in that book. They mortgaged everything to the hilt, borrowed $400,000 from the bank, etc. But they believed in the cause. It’s nice to know there are still some people who believe.
p.s. Thanks for coming back to answer further, I appreciate that :)